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In his new book, popular secular critic and bestselling author Sam Harris puts his views in dialogue with Maajid Nawaz, a once radical Islamist who reformed and co-founded Quilliam, a counter-extremism think tank based in London. In a bit of a departure from his earlier work, which some on the left have viewed as aggressive and intolerant criticism of Islam, Harris hopes this partnership with Nawaz will feel more accessible to the Muslim world, which he says doesn’t need more criticism from “infidels like me, but from self-identifying Muslims who want to find some basis for reform.” The interview features Harris’s take on the effect of Islamic doctrine compared with other religious doctrines both past and present, the challenges of reforming Islam, and his response to his liberal critics.

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Featuring Tom Lutz, Laurie Winer, and Seth Greenland. Produced by Jerry Gorin.